and india where there's a big social agenda, you have a different form. anyone europe, southern europe, northern europe, different forms, but in northern europe, the informed capitalism, where the government believes in strong social safety net, believes in paying for health care, believes in playing a role in determining what businesses grow or fail, and they're creating more jobs than we are. so we have to be careful when we, as we sometimes do in the united states, get up on our high horse and say we understand capitalism. actually what's going on in the world is a competition between different versions, and if our version produces more inequality, produces less growth, it's -- is seen as less fair and others are seep as more fair and producing growth, who do you think is going to win that arguement? >> host: a lot of people say the northern european countries, norway, sweden, et cetera, is socialists. is socialism a term that is outdated? >> guest: i think it is. let's take an example. car companies going bankrupt during the last cycle. america, big capitalist country, doesn't have
